Logitech Saitek Pro X-56 Rhino H.O.T.A.S. Video Game Flight Controller for PC (Renewed)

I received the unit today - I say that it wasn't properly refurbished and this is the most likely cause of the issues I've been experiencing. Another issue could be the lack of packaging material and the fact that the controller box was placed inside of a box which could've held 8 of these controller boxes. The only protection material added was a 3 or 4 foot long or so bunched up thick packing paper. It wasn't enough to prevent the box from being flung around inside of the large box with loud and audible thuds - I recorded a video before opening the box. The tape used on the box was inadequate too and there was a wide gap in the lid which you could see what was inside. If you've seen the video of the Amazon fulfillment center where the box continuously rolled along a conveyer belt and never left it - it was because of this type of terrible packing where the inner item / box was being thrown around, so when it lands on a side and moves the object inside is still moving and then causes the large box to rotate and never continue.There wasn't much physical damage to the outside larger box, however for the controller box there was a hole inside one of the paper trays ( similar to what is used to hold drinks at a fast food restaurant ) and it takes quite some force to do - I do not know whether or not this was from the shipping or if it was there prior.Anyways, I don't know if the issues occurred during shipping or was the result of improper refurbishing - I believe the latter to be the case with the former possibly playing a role. These controllers use sensors which are very fragile and when something happens it can cause issues. These are the parts I believe were damaged during shipping. However other elements of the device are not as sensitive, these I believe were strictly improperly refurbished, or not adequately checked during the refurbishment.+ = good- = bad± = neutralProblems - Joystick- Yaw ( Twist ) axis flutters - it jitters by as much as 20%, but only in 1 direction and it happens at ALL times, meaning a dead-zone would not resolve the issue.- I can not remove the spring from the unit - there is no documentation on how to do it and nothing which seems obvious works ( without applying force - I didn't want to risk damaging it - I may look into this later )- The primary trigger button doesn't have any type of click feeling - it depresses with no way of knowing if it was pressed or not, I'd prefer having a type of feedback I can feelProblems - Both units:- I do not like that the software doesn't filter noise from the sensors - a lot of joysticks have this simple feature, it isn't difficult to predict the problems after monitoring and fix them so they are as good as gone for 99% of the time - and when those spikes happen during movement, the filter can remove them without it ever being sent to the controller - This isn't hard to do - auto calibration is the step under this in terms of complexity ( and all it is is grabbing the min / max sensor value when the person moves it, and ensures the 0% to 100% matches those values, maybe adding a little shrink to ensure 100% can be obtained )- I do not like the type of wiring used for these controllers - the wiring is not meant for anything which moves - they are a stiff pvc or something style wire which, when moved, causes the metal to heat, harden, get brittle and break and the insulation / exterior of the wire also breaks causing interference from other wires which also have broken...- Rubber Feet - These are not sticky enough, I had to add 2 sided stick tape ( 2 layers to be thick enough to reach the table ) to the bottom in order to prevent movement on my desk.- Force feedback doesn't appear to work - I read there was force feedback somewhere but it doesn't appear to exist or isn't working - I'll update this if it works when in a game )Note: I did not disassemble the unit - I watched some videos which show the insides and the problems which arises as the unit ages 6 months or longer. This is how I know what the inside looks like, the problems, etc... It is likely the yaw issue is because of brittle wires and if that was the only issue I'd fix the wiring. But, because there are actual buttons ( rotary encoder, etc.. ) which has issues, I can't keep the device.Problems - Throttle Unit- The system to make the throttle stiff or easy to move isn't working as it should. There are 2 limits that need to be followed by the user - if you force the dial beyond these areas, you can cause damage. I am aware of this and did not do that. Basically the dial should be pretty easy to spin until you come to the limit, beyond that you can rotate it but it will cause damage. Anyways - the issue is that when I move it to hard and to easy, the throttle doesn't change much in terms of ease or stiffness. I have tried while moving it ( you have to stop to rotate the dial though ) and it does work, but I would've preferred to make it easier to move than it is.- There is no center bump on the throttle - for those that use it for forward / reverse, there should be bumps - 50%, 25%, 75% and maybe even 90%. ... ie: if you want you can use from 25% to 90 or 100% for forward, and 0 to 25% for reverse - this would be a nice feature. OR, 0 to 50 and 50 to 100 for forward / reverse which most seem to use. The reason I suggest 10% at the end is for boost, there are markings which clearly indicate it going beyond 100% so... Also, 25% for reverse because reverse is typically very slow so there isn't much need to have that fine of control over that, and would help for forward to have an extra 25%... In short, having some way to feel where you are would be beneficial.- The pinky rotary encoder is broken - this is the device similar to a mouse scroll-wheel. It doesn't pick up every single click and this is very annoying. It can pick up as much as 80% but as little as 10% when spinning it in either direction. If you go slowly, there are several spots which are never detected which leads me to believe this wasn't checked during QA after refurbishing or they would've seen the light wheel needed to be replaced ( this is the most likely explanation there is a wheel within these devices to block light and cutouts to allow light, each click passes from dark to light to dark. It can also be the other way around so light to dark to light. But if a spoke is missing it goes from light to light to light, never having the light blocked meaning the device never picks up a rotation.- The 50% block in both of the right throttle ( F / G ) spinners aren't the same. For example on F rotating clockwise using the perspective of looking from top down ( and I'll use this same perspective for all other comparisons, ie for G, imagine looking through the unit at it and clockwise is still to 100%, it is just inverted value return either in the hardware or software ) I feel a nice \_| pause ( from left to right )... However, going from 50 to 0 I end up feeling a \_| ( going from right to left ) meaning if you try to get to 50% from 100% and don't want to go over, it is much easier to miss hitting the center mark than if you were going from 0 to 50....- G is identical to F in terms of the \_| style of stopper... Except when going down instead of it being next to no resistance after a tiny bump from 50% to 0% the next 5% below 50% is very rough to maneuver through and is quite difficult. I believe this knob to be damaged internally because it isn't working properly. You shouldn't have to FORCE the knob as much as I have to...- I mentioned this partly already, but the system used to control how stiff the throttle is, is an issue. I didn't mention this aspect though - the stiffness is NOT uniform. It seems to work on a curve meaning it can be stiff to start and then gradually get less stiff, or is less stiff to start moving then gets very stiff as you move. It seems to be random but it is another problem.Problems - Misc- RGB - I typically find RGB to be very tacky. In this case it isn't terrible, but you can't control the RGB on both units, only the throttle unit. - The stick unit has no control over the RGB which is terrible because I can't even darken it, and the lights under the bowl hat switch are shining right into the corner of my eye and is very distracting - I'll probably have to cut the wires out or add a resistor or something to dim them...+ RGB Can be darkened so it isn't super bright, and you can choose the color you want for the throttle unitProblems - Box Contents- The user manual included is a bi-fold pamphlet saying how great it is, then awkward use of the alphabet to find the buttons on the left to read what the controls do.- Not all buttons are explained - ie what does SLO do?+ The buttons which are explained, are explained in several languages.- No tool, or manual entry, is included which explains how to swap out the springs of the stick unit.-Now that the actual problems are out of the way, lets discuss ergonomics, usability - design flaws, etc...Throttle Unit:- H / I buttons ergonomically are a little awkward to use.- The rocker |>| button next to H / I is very difficult to use with the pinky and ring finger... I have to essentially use the top of the rocker to act like I'm pressing DOWN from the top of the unit instead of toward the rear at the top or bottom of the front of the button..... That works for rocking is down. For rocking it up I have to pull the top part.. Using the button as it is intended doesn't work at all for me... This could be because of the nerve damage, or the way my hands are built.- H3 is difficult to move with G in the way- The joystick under E is impossible to use without completely shifting how the unit is held. If I end up using it for left / right / up / down thrusters - it may not works well - I may need to use the thumb joystick on the joystick itself for this which isn't terrible but I'd prefer to have the 2 operations on separate hands - I currently use 2 joysticks ( A Microsoft sidewinder 1 [ without twist ] for the left / right / up / down thrusters, and I had a sidewinder 2 FF for the other but swapped it for a Logitech 3d Pro or something with a custom hat switch [ similar to the crown but spiky to make it easier to use because the stock was impossible, and the thumb button has a glob of hot-glue on it to make it stick out and it is nice and smooth and works well ] - so having 2 hands for the normal flight and extra flight controls would be better for me. )- Rotary 3 and 4 are awkward to get to - actually all of the switches on the right are awkward... They should be on the left because of the throttle controls in the way.... I wonder who made that decision to make them harder to access?- None of the switches are toggleable. I do like having momentary switches - they are of a higher quality than buttons and each one is good for 2 buttons instead of 1 - however having at least which could be switched permanently would be nice for things such as cargo-scoop, landing gear, etc...+ The unit is fairly heavy and looks to be of decent construction- The unit is poorly constructed in terms of wiring, and internals due to improper wiring choices and other design / engineering 101 mistakes. ie: instead of using flexible wiring meant for motion such as a ribbon aligned along the direction of travel with an S style to allow it to compress and extend without leaving the S shape - they use stiff PVC insulated style wiring which is meant for straight runs ( if you look at electronics from the 50s / 60s or so, you see how the wiring insulation disintegrates off the wire core, the wiring choice they used causes the disintegration in a year or less because the wires aren't meant to move at all, if they were used for straight runs only then they'd likely last a decade or more... )... They could've also used, instead of a ribbon cable, a button of flexible wires and set it up to convert the motion in a way to prevent any friction against the wire insulation - instead the wires are essentially loose and free to rub up against anything, sharp, rough, etc...Joystick:- The raised platform added to the hand-rest doesn't have a ramp to easily reach the palm button - it is 1/3rd blocked by the ramp making it very uncomfortable to access.- The right side button on the joystick is difficult to access / use.- The pinky trigger feels amazing - this is what I expected the primary trigger to feel like - the main issue with this is that it is too far forward.- The primary trigger button doesn't have any type of click feeling - it depresses with no way of knowing if it was pressed or not, I'd prefer having a type of feedback I can feel - This is added to problems and this section because it may have been a design choice - without disassembling this part of the unit or finding someone with this answer, I won't know.- The hat switches are a nice touch, lots of buttons in a small area, but the cone version is too hard to manipulate - it should be swapped with the crown, and / or bowl. The crown is easiest so it can be furthest away, the bowl is almost as easy so it could be mid and the cone is the hardest so it should be closest.- The bowl hat switch has no way to easily sense direction / key you're pressing.- The cone hat switch has no way to easily sense direction / key you're pressing.- The button labeled R in between the hat switches it too high, it should've been placed lower- The thumb joystick is a nice idea, but it is too awkward to use easily. The button press of all of these joysticks is very awkward. I would've preferred a controller style joystick / button combination vs this - I may, when I return this and get one that actually works, replace them myself.- I would've preferred having more buttons - the lack of actual buttons is a big problem - I would've liked an extra 2 buttons under the trigger to mate with the rest of my fingers all the way up the line - I may add these in manually - to work with the pinky button.- I would've liked a few buttons added to the hat-switch area... Since there is a hat switch, I could 3D print my own front cover and remove a hat-switch ( the bowl, then move the crown to the cone, and the bowl to where the crown is ) and figure out a way to add the 8 buttons represented by the hat switch in that small area... If not possible, then running some wires down to add 2 to the pinky area, then I could add 2 columns with 2 buttons each there... Then next to the thumb joystick, add 2 buttons that my thumb could easily access next to on the | wall where the trigger goes through, and on the \ wall just above that.. Then I'd have R, 2 buttons below, and 2 to the left... 2 near the thumb, and 2 for my middle and right ring fingers by the pinky button... I may even choose to use a rocker by the thumb joystick. A rocker may be used on the other side too...- I would've liked to have seen a few buttons on the joystick panel - yes... they are hard to get to, however they would be a perfect location for certain things on a craft that are not used frequently such as landing gear ( I may use the throttle area for this, but maybe not - depending on what I use everything for those may be for other things )... a cargo scoop,+ I do like the feel of the joystick overall- The joystick is too high when on a normal desk with keyboard / mouse, etc...+ I do like the hat switches ( crown and bowl, but the bowl should have arrows to make it easier to press in that direction )+ I do like the pinky / ring finger trigger- I don't like that the trigger doesn't have 2 modes or a second button within that can be pressed without activating the trigger button, and the trigger can be pressed with it for games such as War Thunder which have a light / heavy means of firing guns, on top of missiles, etc...+ I do like the fact that they added a hand riser- I do not like that the hand riser is not adjustable and blocks the pinky button, as stated before about the pinky button - they should have added a ramp or concave area for the pinky to rest in...+ The unit is fairly heavy and looks to be of decent construction- The unit is poorly constructed in terms of wiring, and internals due to improper wiring choices and other design / engineering 101 mistakes. ie: instead of using flexible wiring meant for motion such as a ribbon aligned along the direction of travel with an S style to allow it to compress and extend without leaving the S shape - they use stiff PVC insulated style wiring which is meant for straight runs ( if you look at electronics from the 50s / 60s or so, you see how the wiring insulation disintegrates off the wire core, the wiring choice they used causes the disintegration in a year or less because the wires aren't meant to move at all, if they were used for straight runs only then they'd likely last a decade or more... )... They could've also used, instead of a ribbon cable, a button of flexible wires and set it up to convert the motion in a way to prevent any friction against the wire insulation - instead the wires are essentially loose and free to rub up against anything, sharp, rough, etc...Some comments:I like how the throttle actual works on a CIRCLE - a lot of units actually operate using a FLAT potentiometer, having it on a circle feels a little more natural for motion.The switches all feel very nice in terms of quality, but not having any which locking is a little bit annoying.The fact that someone thought it would be a great idea to put the right side of the throttle controls right below the throttle and the controls on the throttle made a very poor choice as those are all very difficult to get to and manipulate - had they been on the left side, it would've been easier. Also, the mode could've then been at the top left, then the switches under, and the rotaries under, to the left of switch 1 / 2...I would've preferred more buttons on the joystick itself instead of the hats - something I'll likely have to mod the controller for.I would've liked to see a variation of controls on the throttle unit such as buttons, maybe even a large trim wheel, and a yaw wheel along the side of the base ( the side under / in front of Switches 1 through 6 could've been a nice spot for a large wheel on the front of the unit for yaw, and on the right side beside Switch 5 / 6 could've been a wheel for pitch trim about as long as the metal things and about half as high sticking out... or it could've been on the left by the mode switcher - I may add these myself...I like the fact that the top has what looks to be removable covers for the switches - this means I could manufacture my own and replace the toggles with what I want. I is a bit more difficult for the actual rest so I may have to make my own box or, at the least the box TOP so the bottom can be used and the throttle unit can be on the right and the switches, etc.. on the left... Then I can add lights to indicate which switches are in what position, I could even add a display to indicate the exact position of the axis which would be quite helpful... For $200 you'd think that'd be included...I do like that the exterior of the unit exudes a feeling of quality, but I hate the fact that elementary design aspects were ignored and violated - the fact of the matter is that using the proper materials would've been less expensive that what was used ( I'm referring to the wiring for the throttle itself how as you move it, the wires become brittle, break and the insulation does too causing cross-talk, jittering, etc.. ),.... They could've saved money and the unit would've lasted longer - maybe that's why they chose not to do it? A unit that lasts as long as the warranty and no longer means they spend more money, HOPEFULLY on you - I don't because I investigate what causes the issues to see if it was intentional or not - I fix if not warrantied.20k limit...

I was going to send it back, before I received it to get the all black one. But once I received it, I was happy with the product and kept it. It said reburb but it was brand new... very happy with the product!

Ok, I wasn't expecting perfection from a refurbished model, but please - this thing failed programming out of the box. That makes it totally useless. Ok, all the buttons work in the Windows applet - but the LOGIC BOARD is DEAD - the thing will not accept programming and the LED's won't retain their state. A very bad thing to overlook when testing a unit you want to sell as a refurb. No worries, returned the next day for a full refund. This is the 3rd unit I have tried, the first two being brand new, both failed within a week of mild use, both Logic Board Dead and one hat switch dead. Research around and you find many stories of bad quality issues with this product.

Upgraded from x52. Nice build quality, feels very premium. Would recommend.

Obviously not refirbished.Buttons on the throttle crosstalk resulting in random controls being intermittently activated.The joystick has some response stickiness.Not a problem as serious as the throttle but also unacceptable for something "refirbished."Note to whomever pulled my review down:If you take my review down again it will reappear on social media.