Men Who Hate Women: From Incels to Pickup Artists: The Truth about Extreme Misogyny and How it Affects Us All

Must read. Wonderfully written and very informative. Helps undo the myth of the lurker in the shadows and really shows that society is overrun with what Laura Bates so aptly calls Men Who Hate Women

As someone navigating my early 20s especially with the focus on developing relationships, I truly feel as this book widens my eyes on how I view men. Willingly I pride myself to be a man hater and this book definitely strengthen it but also made me fearful of how much damage it has on society. Manospheres are all around us and I feel like Bates done a great job on informing people the dangers of letting things slide. Overall it took me almost a year to finish this book but happy that I was able to stomach it.

About two or three months ago, there was a school shooting at a local high school. One girl was killed and two boys were wounded. After the police investigated, they reported that the shooter, who had shot himself along with everybody else, had frequented online sites related to something called “incel ideology,” along with white supremacist groups and other lovely things. This was at the same high school my daughter attended a little over twenty years ago. When I saw a deal for this book on BookBub, and that it mentioned incels, I had to get it, to find out more. Because, until the shooting incident, I had never heard of incels. The author, Laura Bates, is based in the UK, and she appears to have a background in sociology. Much of her research for this book was done online, in the various social media and other types of forums found there. Occasionally it will sound a little academic. And some of her examples relate a little more to the UK than to the US. But the near-ubiquitous nature of the internet means that the communities she documents are accessible to just about anybody who wants to see what they have to say. She discusses several subgroups of what is called the ‘manosphere.’ Most of them are primarily online, but several also have some presence in the everyday world as well. And at least one is really only present in real life, although it may be the most violent group of all. The first group covered is incels. The name is short for ‘involuntarily celibate.’ This is the most violent corner of the manosphere, responsible for over 100 deaths or injuries in the past ten years (not counting the recent school shooting). They are fond of the “driving into crowds of protesters” method of mass murder. They actively recruit members, telling them that women are the cause of all their woes. They claim that the world, and in particular, individual women, is withholding from them the vital human right of getting laid. The next group is pickup artists – PUA’s. This is a heavily monetized area of the manosphere, dominated by a few men who use their forums to make money selling books and running boot camps and seminars, etc. telling men how to persuade women to have sex with them. Success in this area is dependent on separating men and women into stereotypical categories, where women are nothing more than objects whose sole purpose is to provide sexual pleasure to men. Their advice is at best deeply misogynistic and at worst a manual for sexual violence. Some of the most successful have admitted to rape. Many of them suggest that successful men should rape women, and that rape, at least on private property, should not be a crime. But because of their ability to con and manipulate, they are the most acceptable face of the manosphere community. Men Going Their Own Way – MGTOW This group rejects relationships with women altogether. There are four levels of this: 1. Rejection of long-term relationships 2. Avoiding even short-term relationships 3. Economic disengagement – reducing taxes as far as possible, to avoid paying support for any others, including ‘elite alphas’ and single mothers 4. Social rejection – drops out of society altogether. Holes up in their own apartment, or moves out into the wilderness to go ‘off-grid’ They do this out of a belief that ‘all women are the same.’ They lie about rape and sexual abuse. They consider women parasites. They are particularly concerned about divorce, which they see as allowing women to rob men of money, property, and children. They are a group supposedly devoted to men whose near-total focus is women. MRAs – Men’s Rights Activists Might be more accurately described as Women’s Wrongs Activists. There is a real community of men’s organizations focused on real men’s problems like mental health, masculine violence, and relationship violence. But this isn’t it. MRA’s are obsessed with attacking women. They also claim to be concerned with the unfairness of divorce but don’t seem to be doing much to improve outcomes. Their particular target is feminism. Their efforts actually impede progress for many male victims. They are insinuating themselves into politics. Trolls - This is in some ways one of the scariest of the manosphere groups. They pick targets and bombard them with usually threatening messages. They spend a lot of their online time insulting or threatening individual women, especially feminists and other high-profile women. They threaten rape and death, and occasionally somebody carries it out. Also, they have forced many women out of their jobs or political office. Occasionally they have driven families from their homes. “Brigading” – coordinated attacks using online message boards to designate specific women as targets at specific times. To force them into silence or withdrawal, making it difficult to report or take action against the abuse on social media platforms due to its sheer volume. Sock Puppets – fake accounts to post trolling messages from, used to make the number of participants in a harassment campaign appear larger than it really is. Members of any of the other manosphere communities may act as trolls if they feel like it. They can troll other members of their group as well as political or other targets. But some people think of themselves only as trolls. Also, manosphere trolls have taken their trolling skills and put them to use working for the alt-right. It’s important for internet trolls to claim, and be seen to claim “victory.” These are terrorist attacks that see themselves as video games. Domestic violence - This is an area that is not an online group. Offline individual family violence, like the online group violence writ small. This is not new. Domestic violence has been going on for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years. This is one thing that makes it difficult to persuade governments, police, online service providers, etc. to do anything about the larger organized groups. This sort of background terrorism against ‘just women’ is such a part of normal everyday life that nobody notices. Men Who Exploit Other Men – Mostly leading influencers from most of the online communities who have found ways to monetize their misogynistic messages with books, courses, groups that need financial support, etc. to get money from their follower, but who don’t really care about these followers at all if they are not providing some kind of financial support. Men Who Are Afraid of Women – These are regular guys who mostly aren’t misogynists or anti-women. They are afraid of things like the ‘MeToo’ movement because it has been presented to them as some kind of mass attack on all men who may be embarrassed by, or even lose their jobs to allegations of sexual harassment or sexual misconduct. This has been presented to them in such a form that they are afraid that they will be punished for something they did long ago that they never would have thought of as sexual misconduct. Actual facts were more like that around 200 men in the U.S. lost jobs, roles, professional ties, or projects. Almost none faced criminal prosecution. But the same members of the manosphere who are responsible for spreading the views that all women lie, etc., managed to get their views into the mainstream media, sowing uncertainty among people who shouldn’t have had anything to worry about. Men Who Don’t Know They Hate Women – These are largely teenagers. This is a relatively new phenomenon. They get their ideas of sex and feminism from online channels, primarily YouTube. There is a lot of pornography, and manosphere ideology there. They think they are standing up for men, accepting normal biology, just joking around, like everybody online. They don’t realize they hate women. Talking with them, and warning them about it beforehand sometimes can immunize them against these attitudes. Men Who Hate Men Who Hate Women – There are a few groups (very few) who are working on this problem, trying to push back against the bad effects of the current definition of masculinity. This section discusses some things that can be done to reduce the problem and the spread of online misogyny. They include things like education because nobody really knows how to talk to people who have been so indoctrinated with these hateful attitudes. Finding solutions to this problem isn’t going to be easy, but people who want to work for a better world need to be trying to find them. At the root of manosphere communities and white supremacy is a shared belief that the core, sacred purpose of man is to have sex, to procreate, and to dominate. Thus, power and control are utterly central to both ideologies. Bates, Laura. Men Who Hate Women: From Incels to Pickup Artists: The Truth about Extreme Misogyny and How it Affects Us All (p. 14). Sourcebooks. Kindle Edition.

The information in this book has awakened me to some recent developments of concern, of which I've been only vaguely aware. Men Who Hate Women details the curent trend of increasing online radicalization and the ways in which this is not only becoming more extreme but more normalized. It makes for difficult but important reading. For some time now, I have been aware of opinions coming from younger generations to the general effect that all or most of the major concerns of the 1960s and '70s -- among them reproductive freedom -- have been resolved, so that, although many still identified as "feminists," many others vocally rejected or were not interested -- ie, "problem solved," ERA defeated, and movement shelved. We see today, women voting in local and national governmental elections, I'd call it against their own interests, to put, and keep, women and men in positions of power over them who are anti-woman. And we see the rise of the kind of woman-hating so well described by this book, not only in online groups but in national media and on social media, YouTube being one example the author details. This situation harms both genders; and children too young to be able to evaluate this trend from experience are drawn into it. Can we do anything? To address any challenge, learning as much as possible about it is a good first step. Therefore, on the general subject of misogyny and subjection, here are two excellent classic books, both deep dives, both by men, that I'd like to recommend: Misogyny - The World's Oldest Prejudice by Jack Holland The Subjection of Women by John Stuart Mill I also recommend a newer book with a premise that is gaining in influence, and research to back it up, that explains anger, but may add some additional insight to the misogyny phenomenon: Anger by Carol Tavris Misogyny has deep roots. It has to do with history, socialization, cultural norms and more. But as to the norms, how did they develop and what purpose do they serve? Consider that both genders, well into old age typically continue believing certain things, long after they have had many opportunities to reconsider earlier learnings. Reconsidering is often done on a selective basis ... thus we could ask which ideas are most resistant to change and why. I think Tavris helps answer this, and her book would be additional valuable reading, especially for authors on the related subject of misogyny. Pros: I'd recommend this book for people who would like information on what is happening with the men's movement(s), and who are able to handle some pretty harsh realities. Cons: Some will find the information a bit overwhelming.

A BIGGGGG book but I LOVED it it’s really worth it

Llego en excelentes condiciones.

The book arrived dirty and in terrible conditions, the cover os ripped and covered in orange marks. I’m very much dissapointed, not worth it.

Seitdem immer mehr Nutzer sich im Internet aufhalten und wir täglich auf dem Display sehen können was Männer von sich geben kann ich jeder Frau nur raten die Augen aufzumachen. Obwohl wir es immer wieder in den Nachrichten sehen zu was Männer in der Lage sind, haben wir einen blinden Fleck und sind trainiert, den unbequemen Zusammenhang zwischen Männern und Gewalt nicht auszusprechen. Und ich sage bewusst nicht "manche" Männer, denn es sind ZU VIELE Männer und welcher Mann sich getriggert oder angesprochen fühlt sollte sich mal selbst hinterfragen und sich ein einziges Mal vorstellen er wäre eine Frau. Das Buch ist gut recherchiert und zeigt die Größendimension des Problems auf. Und wer behauptet dass das Buch "Männerha/s" verbreiten würde, der kann wohl Zusammenhänge nicht erkennen. Denn das Buch zeigt vor allem den gewaltigen Frauenha/s auf und beschränkt sich dabei auf die USA/Kanada und UK. Von anderen Teilen der Welt, wo das Problem noch viel offensichtlicher auftritt, reden wir hier noch nicht mal. Ich kann das Buch sehr empfehlen aber man sollte es besser häppchenweise lesen, denn der Inhalt ist sehr aufwühlend, aber definitiv wichtig zu wissen.

Recommend

I have been reading this book over the past couple of months, and to be honest, it is one that I am struggling a little bit to review. I did finish it a while ago and it has sat waiting for me to find the right words to review it. Even now I am not sure! The book is not nice reading at all, in fact, it is disturbing and extremely unsettling. So, it does beg the question as to why I decided to read it at all. Well, I had come across the term incel in some other fictional books that I had read, the author of one of those books mentioned this particular book as being eye-opening and worth reading. She was not wrong! The book focuses on some extreme groups of men that hover on the fringes of society and on the dark web and have a real hatred of women. These people do not see women as equal, worth anything and items to be used in any way they see fit. As I said, this is not pleasant reading! In researching this book the author did receive threats. The book explores the extreme misogyny that some men have, some of the research is horrific and the author tells how can be easy for vulnerable men to become caught up in the vitriol that is out there if you are looking in the right, or I should say, wrong places on the internet. The internet has its uses but it is also a place for radicalisation, abuse and extremism. If you are interested in the psychology of misogyny then this is a book that will open your eyes and also make you realise how some men have a definite hatred of women and the views they hold. It is definitely an unsettling book to read and one that I am glad I read as it has made me realise just how people can be converted if they are vulnerable, how people can hold extreme views and also how they justify their actions. Would I recommend it? Yes, I would, but it is not a book I would say appeals to everyone. I do think it has a very important message and one that needs to be told. Eye-opening, thought-provoking and definitely unsettling.